Good to see the Scalped vs. Blackest Night discussion back again. For what it's worth, I am certainly with Josh on this one. I haven't actually read that issue yet as I'm reading Scalped in trades (when is the next one coming out!) but I honestly don't think Blackest Night has ever been better than an issue of Scalped. Don't get me wrong, it's not like the veeeeery problematic Flash: Rebirth, in that I do think it's a fun superhero comic but it doesn't come close to packing the emotional wollop that every single issue of Scalped does. They're simply operating on totally different levels.

I found Philip Tan's art to be quite good. I liked it about as much as I did the last guy's. Forgive me for not being blown away enough by his art/reputation to actually remember his name. Batman and Robin is still a good looking book, in my opinion.

@JK43: Yeah, I'm not quite as huge a Quietly fan as most seem to be but his storytelling is incredible. Tan, on the other hand, is better at drawing people than I think Conor suggests but his storytelling is horrendous. I found the latest issue of Batman and Robin irritatingly difficult to follow.

I think at times the iFanboys try to be polite in their criticism of creators; that’s why I loved how Conor took a definitive stance against Tan on Batman and Robin.

The guy isn’t good.... in fact he sucks.

I'm running about two weeks behind with my books, but I did manage to read both Moon Knight and Darkest Night before listening.  Blackest Night is starting to finally get into the details of the Black Lanterns, the rings, the light spectrum, etc., so although a sold issue, it didn't get it me as excited and wanting to talk to people as the previous two.  Not saying it's a major decline, just that Johns is starting to develop some more details of the story.

@llash

Flash Rebirth is for my money, better than Batman & Robin. Amazing book that people will look back on much better over time.

But I digress. Damn you iFanboy for adding another pull for me! 

@Miyamotofreak: I wasn't really comparing the two. Though Batman and Robin is, in my opinion, by far the better of the two. But then, actual stories do have this nasty habit of being better than continuity porn.

@llash

Actually, Flash Rebirth is my first exposure to the Flash. So yeah...

@Miyamotofreak: I actually sort of guessed that. Flash is my favourite superhero so I do probably judge the series harsher than others might but I really do think that there are much - and I do mean MUCH - better Flash stories over the last two decades, with either Wally or Barry in the lead, than Rebirth. A number of which were even written by Geoff Johns.

I only read the first issue of Flash Rebirth, but based on how people talk about it, I get the impression that there's a lot more content than Batman & Robin. I like B&R better, by a mile, but it's kinda skimpy on surface content; if you want to find depth in B&R you have to dig and look up obscure Morrison references that are made to fly by most readers. And that's all fine. The point is, I get the impression that recent issues of Flash Reborn have schooled readers by giving them a lot of information content, and that's different from the fun flightly read that most get from B&R.

I'm not sure about the Indigo Lantern being a "deus ex machina". Like Conor said, deus ex machina's wrap things up at the end in an unforseen way. The Indigo Lantern just explained some things that we already knew quite a bit about. So a character who explains things in the first half of a story...is a deus ex machina?

So Peter Parker blames the Chamelon for what happened? Ew, I'm glad I dropped the book. I like fun-loving Peter, not I-sleep-with-drunk-girls-and-then-make-up-excuses Peter. Not even close to a funny character development, no matter how annoying the roommate might be. And I don't like comic books that ape decadent sitcom humor.

To make up for these complaints, I'll thank you for the podcast and say I agree with all of you on every point of everything else. :-)

@flappjaxx: The Chameleon did sleep with Peter's roommate. Peter wasn't blaming him for the post-marriage sex. He blamed him for the make-up sex, which was not Peter, but the Chameleon.

@flapjaxx

You are correct. Flash Rebirth is a dense 22 pages. 

The great BKV just did an interview on a website that shall remain nameless.  He's got plans already in the works for when Ex Machina finishes up.  Heres to hoping they actually see the light of day soon.

And yeah...Tan's artwork sucked 

I like it how most people were praising Tan's work until it was brought up on this show. Guess the haters waiting until Conor's approval to hate yes?

@Flapjaxx: The idea that there is any "depth" to Flash Rebirth is hillarious to me. There is quite a bit of content, to be sure, it's just a pity that so much of it is boring waffle. 

How was B&R #4 dark and messy? It was bright and colorful for the most part. Just the ending was dark because it was in a dark room. I will agree that Penguin looked pretty off, but other then that I don't think there was anything wrong with this.

But I know conor and the others hated this guy before giving him a chance. So like me and a Bendis book; we're about even at this point.

@TNC - A few of these posters have mentioned previously that they were not fond of Mr. Tan's work.  I believe I actually used the words dark and messy in the comment section for the book.  I think the reason it seems dark is that he simply uses a lot of very deep black and a few objects will get a bright splash of color, thus making the darker sections even deeper.  I also find it messy because it feels like Mr. Tan uses 5 lines when 2 will do.  It just feels like too much is happening.  

I'm glad you enjoyed it (maybe it is your young eyes being able to handle everything thrown at them), but it isn't my favorite style. 

There was a throw away line in Blackest Night 3 which I think will prove to be important. The female Indigo Lantern said something about different colours working in union to defect the Black Lanterns. In that extent I don’t see the Indigo Lanterns becoming the ‘deus ex machina’ or solution to the story. Instead I get the idea that the Different Lantern Corps will eventually working together in a final confrontation with William Hand.

Also, the amount of words in a comic don’t indicate the worth of that book. Batman 7 Robin may be quick reads but there’s is a certain amount of unsaid visual story telling devices. Just that Alfred arranging the photos of the Bat-family with Damian separate from Bruce and Dick. It’s a metaphor, baby!


and colour is meant to be spelt c.o.l.o.u.r.

@stuclach: Yes....Yes my young eyes makes me see different colors. Or it could be these candy shaped pills I found on the floor the other day.

Is it just me or is the text red on here?.....and moving like a worm!!!

@edward - I find the Indigo tribe a bit of a Deus Ex Machina because they seem to appear out of nowhere and offer the solution that you mention (I don't think that was intended to be a throw away line).  I'm not sure the title fits, because they have appeared in the Green Lantern books (at least once), but for anyone reading Blackest Night without that background they would certainly fit the definition of DEM pretty well.

Essentially, they didn't actually fix the problem, but provided the solution.

@TNC - I heartily endorse your "eat anything I find on the floor that looks like candy" policy. The red, wormlike text is an indication that it is working. 

@stuclach: Thank you for approving. It's how I got this far on the website ;)

Also I agree on the Dues Ex Machina approach for Indigo. That really bugged me that she appeared out of no where to help. Out of all the planets/universes/galaxies how did she know Hal was right there?

@TheNextChampion
No, I don't think that's it. I for one was vocal in being underwhelmed by Tan on the issue's page; everyone else probably just has more tact than I do. I still think he did a decent job with the fight-y stuff, but only in terms of aesthetics; I felt his storytelling left a lot to be desired. His unmasked faces were also horrendous. It's almost the exact opposite of how I felt about the other Tan at Marvel this week (only in terms of the masked/unmasked dynamic; Billy's no great shakes w/ storytelling either).
@Ilash
If that's hilarious to you, I don't think you and I share a sense of humor.
@Conor
I believe Michelle referred to the act as "swapping spit", which unless they originally had a three letter word there and Whacker said, "YOU CAN'T SAY THAT!!" and they forgot to alter the sentence that word was in, it implies that it went no further than making out. I hope so, because as I said when the incident occured, I'm sure that Chameleon fella gets around and he doesn't seem like the type to carry (non-lethal) protection. Also, I don't get Ron's dislike for Yanick Paquette (sp?); I liked his work a whole fuckton of a lot better than the Luke Ross/Some Other Guy art in the middle story. If anyone ever played the awful WWF Raw 2 on X-box, anyone over 6 feet in that game walked like Peter did in the hallway of that story. Yech.
@flapjaxx
They're a deus ex machina in that they can smoke a Black Lantern like that! (You couldn't see it, but I snapped my fingers) So while the term is often used to imply that which ends the story, it can technically be used otherwise; the phrase just means "god from the machine", so you can have a deus ex machina at any point in a piece of fiction, it's just more common to occur at the end.
They're not a deus ex machina becuase they have been established, albeit momentarily, earlier in the story. D.E.M.s by definition aren't supposed to be explained previously at all.

... In my defense, Raw 2 was the 1st game where you could rip music to the X-box and use custom songs for entrance themes, complete with timed pyro and lighting... *runs away in shame*

@TNC -Indigo magic (obviously).

I'm ambivalent about Tan, but I did notice problems with the storytelling.  Still enjoyed the issue overall.

@stuclach: Oh I see, well it is technically cosmic magic. Different properties.

By the way I made Brave and the Bold my POTW. So there....ah-ha :)

I enjoyed Tan on this issue of B&R very atmosheric with some interesting layouts

@TNC: It was actually in the running for me as well. The end was a problem, I think, in the way it was handled but I thought it was a very promising start to JMS' run. JMS actually came across as something of an old-school superhero writer, much to my surprise, so, despite my initial scepticism, he may well be an excellent choice as a successor to Mark Waid.

@llash: I thought the ending was handled well enough. Maybe two pages of talking about why the kid did the right thing was a bit much. But we can't have Batman be brooding all the time. Remember most of his comic life was being a very happy superhero helping out in any way he can. It was only until the 1980's where he became a moody individual.

Haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, I don't even want none of the above... 

@miyamoto: One of us! One of us! One of us!

MODOK got a mention AWESOME!!

It's only issue three of Blackest night, how can the Indigo Lantern be a Dues Ex Machina?

@edward: Exactly. They can't.

What's Latin for lame?  ;)

@conor: Johns uses her in a Dues Ex Machina to get Hal out of a jam. He would've been likely killed if it wasn't for a random help by her. Again, how does she know where he is in the huge span of the cosmos? Sounds like Dues Ex Machina to me...

Show me in this definition where it says the deus ex machina has to appear at or near the end.  Or find me one that does.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deus%20ex%20machina

@josh: That's a good definiton if reworked a little.

Indigo is the leader of the Indigo tribe (Duh, ya think so?) so she is like the 'god' of the group. She randomly comes in and saves the day from an entaglement with Hal and the JLA BL's. So yeah it's total Deus Ex.

@josh: In the traditional Greek plays -- which is where the name comes from -- the deus ex macina always appeared at the end.

It's nitpicking, which belays the point I was making.

@conor/josh: Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

If the Indigo peeps flew in and completely saved the world, I could understand calling them that.  So far they just came in and saved the lovable Atom and explained the situation to the heroes.

You could say that The Indigo Lanterns appear very close towards the end of the Blackest Night saga Johns has been telling since Rebirth But i honestly think we're jumping the gun. The story would not be resolved this quickly in the actually Blackest Night series. There are five issues to go.

c.o.l.o.u.r. 

@drake: But she saved the most important character too. If she didn't then there wouldn't be an event.

Moonknight vs Sentry  = Crazy Batman vs Crazy Superman

Am i the onlyone who saw that¿? 

@TNC-There are tons of examples of a character coming into a story and saving the hero from possible death, that doesn't make them a deus ex machina.

Han Solo at the end of Star Wars = deus ex machina.

I think we're all taking some liberities with the deus ex machina device.

@drake: Did you see josh's link for the definition? That means all instances like that is deus ex.

reagarding Indigo-1's appearance, I read it that she turned up to save the atom because he was displaying compassion. She wanted to stop the Black Lanterns obtaining compassion 'energy'. That's how she knew where they were, she homed in on the compassion.

@TNC-I don't trust anything but Webster's, thank you very much.

And I think the ending for Brave and the Bold was not as bad as it sounds.  JMS was going for a certain feel for his comic, and I think for the most part it succeed.  But I agree that it was a bit too much and took me out of the story at the end.  Oh, and the Batman's costume in it was bad ass.  I loved the way the cowl was drawn.  I look forward to the next issue.

X-Factor #48 came out this week, not #40.

Minor point of clarification: The Bad Religion member(s) Ron was thinking of is actually Greg Graffin and Brett Gurewitz. Neither of which have anything to do with any sort of lunar knight.

Interesting fact, this is the first time the guys have said "circle jerks" and "bestiality" on the same show.

@drake: Your just sitting in bed right now waiting for that to happen right? :)

Han Solo would only be a deus ex machina if we'd never met him before he showed up at the battle, or didn't know he had a spaceship.  Han coming back at that point is perfectly set up if you know how movies work.

In other news, I wrote down some of my favorite out-of-context quotes from this episode.  While there were some doozies, I believe Conor wins for, "That fails to take into account people who like to have sex with animals."

Nice job, as always!

man that is a cool prize pack... and conor gets mail on sundays? i guess they dont record their show on sundays then... and BILLY TAN ROCKS!

I was just fucking around with the Han Solo thing and making fun of certain members.

Conor ended this debate by pointing out the Greek playwrites.

I'm a Johnny-Come-Lately to "Ex Machina" (read: I purchased issues 1-43, the last few months and read them all in one sitting) and I'm quite sad to see this series go. It's excellent.

-J. 

@Jetstorm - I did a quick search of the comments to make sure nobody else posted that when I saw you had already made that observation. Doh.

 I dunno if it's a corperate dig or just unintentionally repetative creative decisions, but yes, that's apparently how it goes. I'm looking forward to their crazy-Wonder Woman character who's undoubtedly in the works.

'there is no science to chicks.'  HILARIOUS. 

None of the iFanboys reading Invincible Iron Man is a travesty I say.

@Smeee: but Phillip Tan doesn’t

 
I think appearance and apparent effectiveness of the Indigo Lanterns against the Black Lantern will be a device to show how bad-arse the Black Lanterns really are. I get the feeling in the next issue the ray of hope that The Indigo Lanterns will be dismissed as the black Lanterns quickly defeat them....

I have two reason to think this. Firstly, it’s issue three of eight issues. Far too early to begin concluding the story. Secondly, the inevitable victory of the good guys will seem even more impossible and heroic if the ‘deus ex machina’ of the Indigo Lanterns is introduced than demolished.

I'm 100% Certain that Indigo is the Brainiac Indigo.

I can't remember who but someone said that Indigo looks a lot like a Monitor.

If that were the case then it would be more interesting if true.

@ edward- damn sorry its pretty easy to get those 2 mixed up. i actually hate billy tan.

where is a picture of conor in white pants?!

I also had problems following Tan's storytelling on Batman and Robin, with individual panels such as the final page one of the Red Hood firing completely bamboozling me until I turned the page sideways; mind, the colouring didn't help.

Blackest Night was OK, I loved the focus on Firestorm and great moments for Mera, and was intrigued to learn that the indigo light's speciality is exposition.

Voicemail Damon, I didn't get how you saw your not liking the Doom Patrol but enjoying Metal Men as cause for complaint - it's a question of taste, not fact.

When I read about Web of Spider-Man, it sounded like something akin to the forgotten Tangled Web of Spider-Man, a Spider-Man book that features the people whose lives he touches as opposed to featuring Spidey himself.