Batman #686

So excited.

48 pages? Nice!

I have such high hopes for this.  Love Andy Kubert

I'm geeked

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I didn't read RIP, but since its end I've been interested to "Whatever happened to the Caped Crusader?" I like Neil Gaiman, but will it be a good jumping on point?

@PaperCupCowboy: Sure.  Gotta start somewhere.

I hope so. I hope this is a standalone story. I'm sick of the insane Batman continuity. I liked RIP but GODDAMN.

i am so excited for this.

i'm excited. Say what you will about Gaiman and the magical feiries; the dude knows the craft on comic story telling

@PaperCupCowboy - As long as you have access to both Wikipedia and the iFanbase, they are all good jumping on points.

Neil Gaiman is no Grant Morrison.

@ akamu - Yeah, Gaiman's books tend to make sense. ;)

Chicken noodle soup is no bowl chili chese fries. Then again I assume everyone already knew that.

This better be good....I anit much of a Gaiman fan so he better deliver on the story. Cause the last special guest, Denny O' Neil, did not do a good job with his two parter.

The preview of this is up on a few boards (I think the orig preview is from myspace.com/comicbooks). It looks good, which is what I'd expect.

Yeah, this would be a good jumping on story. Whether you read RIP or FC or not, just jump into this with the understanding that "Batman's gone now", which the story's title implies anyway. Or you can treat it as an Elseworlds. With that said, I personally think it will be fun to see whether Gaiman works any nods to recent continuity into this arc. From what I remember last summer when this was announced, before writing this Gaiman did discuss RIP's end with Morrison, if that matters.

cant wait, but it still feels wierd to see Kubert's art on DC Cahacters

i hope this is good. i cant wait to see kuberts art!

Having just reread Sandman in my Absolutes. It was as good as I remember. I'm interest to see what he does but I'm afraid of it being as boring as Marvel 1602.

48 pages!  Awesome. 

Neil Gaiman + Batman. I'm sure I am not alone in feeling that this comic book was notorized as for me personally when it was conceived. 

Has Gaiman ever done a batman story? I'm really interested to see what his batman is like.

@TNC: The implied threat in your comment is hilarious to me.

@JumpingJupiter. don't make him angry dude

I sure hope this brings the awesome.

Hopefully this lives up to the hype!

If it doesn't, I think TNC will join me as we storm the DC offices with rabid monkeys armed with sub-machines guns.

Empty threats are fun. =D

@edward and JJ- I can see TNC and Wade riding up to the DC offices in their  whambulance and raising fanboy hell, and it literally has me laughing my ass off :-)  The thought of two guys dressed up as Deadpool just giving Didio a verbal thrashing is priceless.

@Wade: Dude, they totally discovered our plan! Time for plan B: Raid the Ifanboy's lair and take it as our own :) Awesome.

I'm sorry I just hope the actual comic lives up to the hype. Cause, again, O'Neil coming in as special guest star writer totally bombed in my eyes.

@wadewilson. it's like if your kids are messing around in the back of your car as you are driving. Than you make an empty threat like "i swear to god! If you kids don't stop i'm going to throw one of you off this bridge!! i mean it!!"

I'm glad to see Mr.Gaiman back at DC and writing batman to boot!!!

Pretty excited for this, as somewhat of a Gaiman fan.

@Neal Appeal - Yes, Gaiman did a Secret Origins Special way back in the late 80's I believe it was that told the origin of The Penguin, The Riddler and Two-Face.  As I recall Batman did appear at some point in the comic.

I heard from my LCS owner that Quitely will be on Batman when Morrison returns.

Can anyone confirm this?

@Ruo21-Thats more speculatory than anything else.   Would be pretty sweet, but I think would have a hell of alotta delays.

@Ruo21: All signs are pointing that way. At the Bat-titles panel this past weekend they said that fans would be very pleased with who the Batman artist was, and a few weeks ago we heard that Quitely and Morrison were going to be working together again. Some rumor blog did say it was going to be on Batman. Yeah, the delays would kill it, though. But Quitely hasn't done anything (that I know of?) since All Star Superman ended, so he might have some lead time. My guess is that Quitely and Tony Daniel will alternate a few arcs.

If that's true it will make my life.

Ew...I can't stand Quitely.

i actually found o'neil's Hush story entertaining once i settled down and realized my only problem with it was that it made sense... <--ellipses. god, i love 'em! 

48 pages, now that's worth the admission. Can't wait to see where Gaiman takes this.

wait 100 percent pick of the week already a review its only 1209..........im calling shennagins

Ignore my last statement I actually read his bio. after listening to battle for the cowl if this doesnot rock im going to be so dissapointed

Wow Akamuu, are you from the future of 12 hours from now? :)

He lives in Japan!!!!

yeah. but shouldn't it take longer for the comics to be ship to japan than to be distribuated around america?

@drake: Then that would mean he lives in the future!

I wonder what happened to the Dark Knight I just hope The Scarecrow , Clayface, or Man-Bat and any of his old enemies are behind this issue can't wait to get me a copy.

Akamuu works in a comic shop and he's nice enough to post brief spoiler free reviews for us. :D

A comic shop...in Japan???  I swear he is the secret member of the Super Young Team

All I have to say is that the Alfred story in this comic was the best I have read in the past couple of weeks.  I actually went "holy shit" when reading this and seeing while not plausible just a great idea.  A testament to that realtionship he has with Bruce.

Blah....This issue was blah

Not bad mind you....just....blah.

This one's going to cause more fighting. 

 Personally, the Catwoman story was alright but the Alfred one I loved, same for Kubert's pencils.  

I love this whole thing, and the ending was pure Gaiman which is never a bad thing. The dialogue on that last page gave me chills

This issue didn't really do anything for me.  All in all, I'd rather have my $3.99 back.

Again this wasnt a bad issue, I did like the two stories here.

But just the idea that this clearly isnt the same universe as the one Batman really 'died' in....It just got me confused on what the point of this was. I mean if this isnt the same universe where Batman got the Omega Sanctions in FC....then why are we being shown this alternitive universe?

Plus the narration got old for me fast. I'm sure everything will be explained next issue but I agree with Jim from above....this was totally not worth the 3.99 it was priced for.

@TNC not to belabor the point, but it is the spiritual successor to moore's "Man of Tomorrow" and that happened in an alternate universe. Or, you could argue, Pre-Crisis Earth 1. So, i'm really not shocked on that end. it's an exploration of how the character, if his Golden Age/early Silver Age continuity persisted.

I liked this issue. not sure it's POW yet (for the most part it's usually clear to me by three books in which will be best) but I enjoyed it. 

@TNC - I seem to recall the Omega Sanction causing you to relive lives that were progressively worse.  Maybe this is the set of progressively worse lives.  Not trying to claim that is what is going on, just throwing out the possibility.

Spoilers

Selina letting Bruce die of a gunshot wound is pretty bad, but finding out that all the "crimefighting" that you had been doing was staged and then getting shot in the face an the fucking riddler, is worse.  Seems like they are getting progressively worse.

I really enjoyed this.

@TNC: You know I forgot this is somewhat of a successor to 'Whatever Happen to the Man of Tomorrow?' Looking back this story makes a little more sense because it is almost exactely like that story. Golden/Silver Age references and it's pretty much passing the torch to the new/modern Batman.

But what doesnt make sense is that the real reason for Alan Moore's Superman story is to end one era to lead into another. Unless suddenly 2009 is the mark of a new era, then there's no reason to think all of these characters and villains are going to change drastically. Cause once the Silver Age ended, all of Sups supporting characters changed dramatically in certain ways. Here; other then Batman, Robin, and Nightwing; nothing else is going to drastically change here. All of Bruce's friends will be the same, all the villains will most likely be the same, so what are we really accomplishing here?

It's fine if this is an exploration of the character, but if we're really making this a successor to Superman's 'Tomorrow' story....then really doesnt hold up in my eyes.

*Edit: @Prax I ment.

Damn no edit button!

I really liked it.  I'm not sure it's going to make sense...but so far, I liked it.

It was ok

I think this is one of the best comics I've read in a long time.  I would actually rather that it stand outside of current continuity, because that's the best way to ensure it will stand the test of time.  I am going to get copies of this to several people I know who are fans of Batman but don't bother keeping up with the comics, they'll love it.  Easily my pick of the week, and in my opinion an instant classic.

I was disapointed by this issue only in the sense that i didnt get the kind of story i was expecting, with that said this was really enjoyable and i really enjoyed the Catwoman story immensley as shes my fav character in general. However im still confused if this is supposed to be some sort of definitive endng to the Golden age Batman or if this is supposed to be part of the whole omega sanction stuff which if i've got my facts correct makes you relive your live over and over getting progressively worse, if its the latter then im very intrigued about how horrible the next issue is going to get

 One question, the person that Bruce is speaking to at the end... is that a certain Sandman related female character who shall remain unamed? you know who im talking about

My problem with both of the stories mentioned is that they are good. But not good in that 'this sums up Batman's history or sums up his supporting cast'. This is good on the level of a one-shot or something that isnt in continuity.

It's fine to have your supporting cast remember the 'good old days' of your life....But not when they arent even in continuity to begin with.

Its doesn't always have to be about continuity to be a story about the life of Batman.  And it was never billed as being a "sum up of Batman's history." 

@drake: Then what is the point of this? Cause that's what I got from reading this issue.

@Next I got the feeling that this wasn't exploring continuity or even history, but summing up batman and the world he lives in. or rather not exactly summing him up, but looking at him from different angles. Batman continuity is the story of one man that never ends. This is sort of the story of many similar men that each have an ending. It's like that movie they did with bob dylan, if that movie wasn't totally awful.  Or it's like a series of elsebrucewaynes. And I think it does the job that a lot of the good elseworlds did. you change one big factor, and somehow it tells you something new about the characters.

@Neal: That's a good point. To me, it felt like an Elseworlds tale. Where your mixing up all the characters together to give us summing up the legacy of Batman.

It just wasnt well represented in my eyes and it made me felt very indifferent about this. I'm sure the 2nd part of this in Detective will be more clearer....but this was just a clusterfuck of a read overall.

I agree with Champ (did I just type that?) -- this was like an Elseworlds book, & as that, it was pretty good. The problem is that it ISN'T an Elseworlds book, because they don't have them anymore & with the narration asking the obvious questions, & making it sound like it IS in continuity (or something?) it left me with a familiar feeling of late while reading a Batman comic -- confusion.

The art was pretty, though & I LOVE the Kubert cover.

I think stuclach's theory is pretty good & I will run with that until it's all explained (if it is). I really hope Batman comics come out of the Twilight Zone some time soon ...

first time I by Batman, ever. This was really good, as far as I'm concerned.

sorry "first time I buy"

@Wade: We've agreed before.....I think....unless I dreamt all of that stuff again :(

Well the saving grace for this issue was the art. Man how incredible were those pencils!? I would've killed to see Kubert and/or Williams on Morrison's run. But Daniel isnt a bad choice either.

This was probably the best looking issue I read this week, so there's that going for it.

Yes this had conflicting stories in it, but that's part of the story.  I like the fact that Batman has to use his detective skills to figure out why this is happening.  Can we just wait to see the other part until we rush to judgement on this?

@superchunk No way man, this is the internet, get a job.

@wadewilson The thing about Neil Gaiman is that he is very much NOT Grant Morrison. I'm 90 percent sure you will understand what is the deal with this is by the end of the next issue.

Also, I know this is a question that comes up very often, but I think it needs to be asked especially here: does it matter if this is in continuity? I don't mean this rhetorically. Would it be better or worse? What would you prefer?

My answer is no it does not matter, and it might even be better if this isn't in continuity. This issue really does feel like an appropriate next issue in the story that's being told--I don't mean that the events here seem to follow the events in the last issues, but it fits thematically.

I think the story might mean less, be less powerful if this was tied closer to current continuity, if this was just an omega sanction effect like stuclatch was theorizing. That seems like a weaker idea for me simply because darkseid is not a batman villain. The omega sanction isn't part of the batman mythos. I'd rather have this story tie closer into batman mythos than fit into continuity.

This would be a better story if it was all about batman instead of being half about batman, and half about what happened after final crisis. Because I love batman, and I could really care less about final crisis.

Well I doubt Morrison would tell Gaiman what offically happenend to Batman. Gaiman doing this story was confirmed months ago, so I dont think in general this was gonna have anything to do with FC.

It's fine to tell a Golden Age tale about the Death of Batman.....But it just doesnt fit within the main Bat book nor does it fit in to the 'death' of Batman currently. It probably should've been a mini or a humongous one-shot.

Beating dead horse.  Just don't be so obsessed with where/how this fits in.  Is it really that hard to enjoy this without knowing the information?

And DC editorial nows exactly what happened to Batman, so I sincerely doubt they would not tell Gaiman so that he can would know the context of the story he was asked to tell

OK, I will take you guys advice & not get hung up on the continuity aspects & have some faith that these things will be explained. I guess I'm too quick to judge a wacky story & expect there to be no explainations for it ... hmm I wonder what recent "stories" caused my lack of faith? ...

I'll do what I do with most everything else I read & judge the story as a whole & not on this chapter.

To answer Neal's questions -- to me personally, I would enjoy the story more if it is in continuity, because it's in the main Batman book. If this was in a one-shot or mini series & was clearly an Elseworlds type story, that would be different. But, most stuff (pretty much everything) in main titles are in continuity.

@drake - the thing that threw me was the narration. Batman asking the same questions that I was thinking -- "is this real?" "this didn't happen" "that person is dead" etc. Without those dialogue boxes, I would have assumed this was out of continuity or a dream sequence, but they left me wondering what was going on. I guess that's the point ... but, like I already said, with Batman stories of late, I'm a little tired of confusion for the sake of confusion with no answers in the end. But if it's all clear in the end -- awesome. I'm cool with that.

(Fun Fact) To all you noobs out there for this site; when someone says 'beating a dead horse' 99.99% of the time it's usually referencing me :)

@Wade: Yeah the narration boxes was mostly the reasons for my complaints too. Plus I just gotta know....is that Death with Batman? Not general death but Neil Gaiman's Death? If it is, that would be so cool.

So far, I think this story might be saying that every version of Batman died. Every piece of him from the multiverse. Every elseworlds version. I think its every part of his continuity/non continuity saying goodbye.  All the what ifs? all the never happends.  I kinda hope I'm right, because that'd just be amazing.

@Anson: Yes.....let that be true, that might be the best theory I have ever heard on this site.

@TNC just think how epic in scope that would actually make Final Crisis and RIP. I don't think a universe wide death has ever happened in comics. The idea that one death was so important that it killed all traces of any Batman in every corner of the Multiverse.  That's Gaiman epic.  That's kinda how he rolls.

Also, if it is Death hanging out with him, I will nerdgasm. I will probably claim this is the best comic ever, if that is right.  

@Anson: Well I thought that Bruce is going to every single Batman in the multiverse. So physically the Batman on like the Vampire universe or Dark Knight Returns universe is that particular Batman....but subconciously it's the regular continuity Bruce inside all of them. That would make an epic torture as well.

But either way, I would freak out if either was the case.

@wade and Next I liked the dialogue, just because it told me it confirmed or me that things were not quite right, so I didn't have to wonder if I wasn't understanding this. It said I was supposed to be confused. The difference between that and Grant Morrison confusion to be is that the Grant Morrison confusion seems to expect you to actually understand it, which bothers me.

Also I don't think that is Death from the Sandman, mostly because she said "I don't think death is a person." That not only denies the theory, but makes a reference to sandman in the process. I think it's a pretty shitty reveal if you pretty much explicity state "it's not this person", and then say "surprise it is this person!" But all the same, Gaiman should write a "Death 'n Batman" one shot and it should be a buddy comedy and Darywn Cooke should draw it.

Okay in my last post i avoided saying who i thought it was at the end so that i wouldnt spoil it for everyone but now that other people have mentioned it, yes, i am totally convinced that it was Death that Batman was talking to at the end. It makes sense thematically, clearly its a female, plus its Neil Gaiman who's writing this.

I find that "loose" does no favors to Andy Kubert's pencils. This was not his finest effort, nor were his G-Mo issues from the past few years. I don't think that Kubert is a good fit for Batman -- he belongs in the more colorful corner of the DCU, like the Justice League, maybe.

In truth, this felt more like a Sandman story told through the prism of Bat-supporting castmembers.

I got it! PAUL POPE could have drawn the shit out of this story.

I just noticed the one -armed Ollie Queen from the Dark Knight Returns on page 14.

 The bar the wake is held in "The Dew Drop" was the name of an actually crack house in west Baltimore. David Simon wrote about it in The Corner. How do you like them apples?

@williamk I don't feel you on the Paul Pope choice. This story has to have a more retro style. Something that can easily dip into the gold, silver and bronze ages. I liked the art here, but if I had to consider substitutes...maybe Mazzucchelli. There's probably better subs than that, but that's all I can think of right now.

@edward Dew Drop Inn is a common old timey name. 

@me Michael Lark?

@NealAppeal. you seem to know a lot about crack houses. hmmm....

 and i used to have big problems with both the younger kuberts styles but than i read a quote by Grant Morrison saying something like "Andy Kubert's art is what americia superhero comics should look like." i totally agree. i think they are like a direct evolution from Bill Finger and golden age art.

the art in this issue was really good.

who is the black glove?

any body catch DKR Ollie Queen in there?  and is it just me, or does the Batman in the casket look like Mazzachulli Year One Batman?  i wonder if thats a statement about this being a new stage of batman. (although i still think he works best when he's done like in Year One, The Long Halloween books, and the No Man's Land through to the Murderer/ Fugitive era).  and if the above mentioned rumor of a Morrison/ Quiatly Batman title would be so so so sweet, especially since those two guys seem to do thier best work with each other (i was just looking at my old New X-Men books and goddamn that stuff was amazing!)

@mike edward noticed. I also made out Joker and Harley looking distincly like the animated series versions of themselves.

@eagle6002-Jesus

I thought that the art in this was really great - it was different from what I expect from Andy Kubert and  thought that he did a nice job presenting different visual takes on Batman.  The story was interesting, and although it felt like it dragged little bit at times, overall it was an enjoable read.  I don't really care if the story's in continuity - that typically has no impact on my ability to enjoy a story, and I get the impression that this might be a general exploration of the nature of the Batman character.  I'm looking forward to reading the conclusion.

As for the Dew Drop Inn reference, I assume it's a nod to Tori Amos, to whom Gaiman has had a creative connection for years.

Morrison and Quietely doing a Batman book? Thats the first i've heard but it sure as hell would make a lot of sense, he said that he finished his run on Batman but hes also said he will be returning in June and there seems to be many new titles coming, wouldnt surprise me if he was writing a proper All Star Batman. Im not a fan of Morrison and i thought a lot of his stuff on his recent run on Batman was garbage(he writes the worst bombardment of cliche so called his Joker) but i really enjoyed All Star Superman

This book was ok.  I'd rather have my $4 back though.

Wake me up when we're back to Batman stories instead of stories about the Batman character.