Batman #680

If the summary is to be believed, which it shouldnt since the last issue had a bunch of lies in them....lies!, this is going to be a fun issue. Confusing and messed up? Most certainly. But if it has Joker, Arkham Asylum, and more Zurr-En-Ahh craziness...then this is going to be fun for me.

The waits between these issues have been very annoying, but I'm anxious to read it.  And I was disappointed by the summary for the last issue, so most of this better occur or they need to work on their solicitation summaries.

Yeah, looking forward to this. About bloody time too!

That cover's amazing!

I can't wait!

I love that cover, and I'm very excited to read it. 

I can't wait to read next issue sometime in January. ;)

I'm stoked.  I've been loving this storyline.

Can not wait.

Batman of Zurr-En-Ahh (or whatever) is totally going to lay the joker to waste... think about it, the persona is Batman with no Bruce wayne, the fight will be over in 20 seconds.

 maybe Morrison is fucking with us by building the joker up in his recent issues 

Cover's not doing it for me. Are they fighting in a hockey rink?

Last issue made me think I might end up liking this.

This is a pretty weak week.  If this isn't my pick of the week then something must have gone horribly wrong.

@edward - If "new" Batman goes to town on the "new" Joker with that baseball bat this will be an instant classic.

@JumpingJupiter - I always fight my large cabal of villians in a hockey rink.  That way I can take advantage of my Batskates.  (Just said "Holy Batskates, Batman" in my head.)

@stuclach- Batskates bring up horrible memories from my youth.  Damn you Joel Schumacher!

@Kory -- I'll second that "damn you" to Joel Schumacher, but replace the word "damn" with "fuck".

Question: Do long delays help or hurt confusing/complicated stories? This is not a sarcastic question, I mean if you have to go back & read the last couple of issues to remember what's goin' on ... it might help with this sort of thing. 

@WadeWilson- I try not to use that word anymore, I was told I use way too much.

Re-reading to remeber what's happening can help you notice things you did'nt pick out before so in that sense it does help the story.  But to me it hurts it more.  It does nothing but anger an already overly picky fanbase which can detract from the story.  It becomes more about delays instead of the merits of the story.

The cover is great.  Looking forward to this.  This story arc has been really good.

I think I know what the POTW is gonna be this week..

I re-read almost every single comic I buy. No, I re-read absolutely every single comic I buy. No exceptions. If it's good to buy it's good to re-read.

@JumpingJupiter- I second that.  If you can't re-read your comic, it wasn't worth buying.  I re-read every couple months.  iFanboy staff are excused from this ruel because we all know they buy waaaay too much and have no time for re-reads

I am definetly looking forward to this.  Of course it will be confusing, but thats the fun!!

I re-read my comics too, though I tend to wait until the current story arc is finished, then re-read all the issues in one go - with some munchies!

Sock it to us Grant!  You da man.

The covers so far are okay. Ross is vastly over-rated, as is Morrison. R.I.P. has been decent enough, though.

I think G-Mo's plan will come together beautifully. I've already gone from "huh?" to "ohhh, I see" at this point, and I think that'll continue... Or maybe I just hope it will...

@ wadewilson

 if i read something friggin confusing i tend to disregard the book, i did this with RIP, but then i re-read the first issues and i remembered  something i love about comics - the rewarding second read!

i think comic reader need to chill out some time and have faith in the creative teams 

@edward - Yeah, it took me a some time to understand this arc too.  Plus I had to go online and get some reviewers takes to get a more concrete grip on what exactly was going on.  but after that, I was able to pick up everything when I was re-reading in prep for this issue. 

this is kind of interesting

http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.com/2008/07/batman-678-and-batman-113-zur-en-arrh.html

it talks about the silver age story 

@J4K3: 'Alex Ross is vastily overrated'

.....You....Did....Not....Just....Say.......That.....

alex ross is totally overrated, justice - what was that?

Okay wait are we talking about Alex Ross the artist or Alex Ross the co-writer? Cause I will agree him as a writer isnt the best track record for him...But saying he's a bad artist...Oh boy you dont want me to get my nunchucks out...

no Champ, nobody wants nun-chucks

all i can say he doesn't really do it for me. Marvels and Kingdom Come were the bee's knees however since than i have found him pretty luke warm. he's not bad, he can paint well but does that make him a great artist? Public parks are full of dudes who can paint well but aren't great artists

he's good, he just doesn't blown me away (that's what she said) 

I feel the same. He's a good artist but to me, he's not great. To me, his art is mawkish.

What is mawkish?

effusively or insincerely emotional.

@JumpingJupiter - You should change your name to JumpingThesaurus.  That would be a perfectly cromulent alias for you. 

I can see how some wouldn't like Alex Ross's style but I love it.  It's because of his art that I got the Kingdom Come Absolute.  There's just something about his style that gives these people in silly costumes validity.  It's his work that makes Superman able to stand alongside the Greek and Roman gods.

just finished reading this one...can't wait to see the reactions. Personally, I don't know what to think as it is very obvious from this issue (at least in my opinion) that the end is near for my favorite superhero of all time.

 My question is this, "If Batman is one of DC's top selling books, why go and mess with it?" I used to love Amazing Spider-man, and now it's all screwed up...will the same happen here? 

 I know many people like Morrison's writing, but I'm not sure that I'm on the bandwagon...

Outstanding issue and setting up for a great finish. Everything about this book is A+ *****

Let's just hope we don't have to wait till next year to find out what happens.  

AHH, no one spoil until us pathetic west coasters get a chance to read!!

I really liked this but to answer the Jokers question... no I do not get it.  I hope to find out next issue but wow I have no idea whats going to happen.

Must.....Wait...Until Saturday....Cant...read....SPOILERS!!!!

Although judging from your non-spoiler responses, this is going be so messed up...Sounds like fun to me.

whether or not Alex Ross is to your tastes after listening to a few interviews one thing about him is he is not insincerely about how much emotion he has invested in these characters.  Like all art it just boils down to whether we like it or not.  I just have to cry foul when I read his art looks "insincerely emotional."   

Wow...um, that was fuckin' crazy stuff.  I have to re-read it before I give it my rating.  Anyone else feel that way?

That was really good. Like, really good.

 I think I need to go read it again to figure it out.

Wow, I did not think it was possible for me to dislike a batman book so much. I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I will re-read it, I suppose, but the thought of doing so does not appeal to me.

The thing about this take on Batman for me is it kind of makes him and everyone around him feel like a pervert.  

Damn the Joker looks scary as hell. I wonder whats up between him and Dr Hurt, cause I was under the impression that no-one talks to the Joker like that.

By far the most understandable and revealing issue of RIP, so far (in my opinion).  This book revealed a great deal and make the entire RIP storyline much clearer (again, in my opinion).  We know who the black glove is.  We know what role the Joker is MEANT to play (not that he can be counted on to continue to play the role).  The only thing left to find out is: who is behind that mask?

@stuclach-most understandable?  Much clearer?  How so?  I still confused, this issue was not as good as I had hoped, and didn't answer as many questions as I had hoped for.

I am so utterly confused by this latest issue that I'm going to get some sleep, wake up and have some breakfast and read it again and see if the confusion is still there.  Although, the new take on the Joker is Bad-Ass, can't wait to see if they keep him like this is future stories.

I agree with stuclach that this was the most understandable issue of RIP yet. However, I was still mostly in the dark yet this time I enjoyed reading the issue for some reason. Maybe it was the Joker's part that made me not hate this but who knows. All I do know is that I will have to go back and read the entire run VERY SLOWLY and with a fine tooth comb after next issue and that I have spent about 10 times more time on the internet trying to figure this shit out than actually reading the book. I'm sticking with it but I'm starting to think that I didn't do enough drugs in the past (I haven't done any) or been reading comics for 50 years to read G-Mo books.

I really liked the escalation again, just like last ish, but I'm left with puzzlement over the last beat, with the floor tiles, etc. And sure, there are some sequences where the Daniel pencils do NOTHING to clearly illustrate the action. But -- I see how deadly serious G-Mo is taking this, and I realize how much I wish he had concentrated on this instead of with Final Crisis simultaneously.

My guess (its very far fetched I know) is that the Jezebel is the Joker.

Just read  the comic. First half of the issue I was very much into it. Second half, meh.

I do appreciat G-Mo's attempt at embiggening the Batman mythos.

ugh i dont fucking understand it anymore...so confusing

How is it confusing? Other than the end which will clearly be revealed soon enough.

Yeah, I totally appreciate just how much G-Mo is putting into this.  I kept looking at everything and trying to figure out what it all meant.  The alternating red and black, ha ha ha, all over.  Oh man, its a ton of stuff that he deliberatly wanted in there.  Just a grand idea that that I can totally respect.

So we have yet another issue where people on one side hates it and is confused but we have another side where they like it but are confused as well.

Oh Ifanboy, where would I be if there wasnt a controversial issue coming out every week? *hugs all around*

I mostly get this issue. Hadn't read anything about Damian so that threw me. I think the tiles thing refers to the city's grid in the last issue.

@drakedangerz - In my post I tried to make it clear what I felt the issue revealed that made the arc more understandable.  We know who the black glove is.  We know what role the Joker is MEANT to play (not that he can be counted on to continue to play the role).  I don't want to say more because I don't want to post any spoilers.

I love what morrison has done with the joker making him some gothic/gay mad man, but im finding this overall arc to be utterly insane and hard to digest.

Its just a mad mess in Morrisons already mental head, im sure its going to open up some amazing elements for further Batman stories but at the moment im not overly enjoying r.i.p. 

@stuclach-I understand what your saying now.  I would counter that some people do not know who the black glove is yet.  I have a very strong guess, and the clues all but flat out say who it is, but I don't want to spoil things either.  This story is way too engaging to spoil I think!

@fightclubber-I wouldn't say he is portraying him as "gothic/gay" Joker has always been written as a flamboyant showman, Morrison's just taking it to the next step I would say.

I can see the showmen aspect taken to the next step, but the slick backed hair topless tounge slashing joker just seems its gone beyond flamboyant, Im not saying he runs a gay bar but some creepy camp elements for me seem to be leaking into Morrisons take on the joker, which is a bold and interesting step.

Again cant wait to see what he does with the joker from this point, but i find this arc just a little messy and unfocused. I mean its supposed to be the biggest story yet and for me it just does not feel like that. 

No Joker, I don't get it.

I can't take it any more.  R.I.P. is absolutely incomprehensable.  I've tried and tried to make heads or tails of this series, but I surrender.  I give up.  I just don't get it.  I'm utterly lost in the story.  If there is someone who does (or thinks he/she does) understand this Morrison mess, then please explain it to me.  I need a life-line here.

Batman was forced to go nuts. That's about it.

@iSteve-well according to Morrison, if you do not understand his work...then you are not smart :-P

I haven't had a whole lot of trouble following the story. I have been completely enjoying it. The only thing that has been frustrating me is the time between issues.

@micah: Yeah my only problems with this event so far is just that A) shipping delays and B) time lapses for each issue. Seriously from one issue we went from Wayne laying in the floor of the batcave with his butler getting beaten near him.....to the next issue of him in a cabin then driving away from the Black Glove.

What happen in that time lapse and how long is that lapse been?

@drakedangerz- Grant Morrison really said that?  I will wait to pass judgement before I know he really said that.

 I'm still 50/50 on this whole story.  It's not the best thing ever, but I'm still curious to see where it is going.

I've had mixed opinions of RIP, some issues I've loved & some issues I've been totally baffled by, & this issue had a little of both, bot overall it was awesome. We finally have some answers, we finally know who the Black Glove is (unless someone slipping on black gloves on the last page with an evil grin is a huge red herring) and I LOVED the portrayal of the Joker in this issue ... if someone can explain how he survived getting shot in the forehead that'd be cool though.

Um, who's the Black Glove again? I've read this but I can't remember!

@thenextchampion: it is tim in the cabin running from black glove. bruce went from being on the floor, to dr. hurt pumping him full of drugs, and then bruce was put in an alley like a homeless guy.

micahmyers seems to have a pretty solid handle on this (and a better memory than me), so if I make/made a mistake in my explanation I hope he will fix it.

@Garrett - SPOILER - It appears (from the last few pages of this issue) that the Black Glove is Jezabel Jet.

Ah, that makes a bit more sense as I was confused by the last few panels. Still, I've been enjoying the arc even though half the time I don't know what's going on.

@micah: Really? Cause I thought he was holding the Bat-Radia and he looked really big to be Robin....See? Now I'm confused on what I've been reading.

@Champ -- Blame this one on Tony Daniel, your confusion of who the characters are seems to be pretty common. As much as I hated when Dick had the mullet, at least it was a way to tell him apart.

@Kory-in an IGN interivew, he mentioned something about some people thinking his stuff is hard to understand.  His response was something along the lines of him feeling he doesn't have to dumb down his work.  I'm paraphrasing, so don't hate if I get it wrong.  Anyways, some people commented and took it to mean that he was calling them dumb for not getting his stuff.  He didn't really say it, I think, or mean it that way, I was just being funny.

I agree with G-Mo, he should'nt have to dumb down his work.  But he can't be upset when people don't enjoy his stuff.  When you are in the business of selling art, not everyone will "get it".

@champion: tim was reading the black casebook in the cabin. bruce got the bat-radia later in that issue. tim did look a lot older than he does in his own book, but later in the issue you see robin calling nightwing to warn him about the club of  villains and he has the red motorcycle he escaped the cabin with.

@Kory: G-Mo doesn't talk about not wanting to dumb down his books, but rather about wanting to write with less choreographing, less telling the reader what she's seeing and how to feel about it (as is still routinely done in most other comics, through things like dialogue and dramatic camera angles). I think this G-Mo interview at IGN sums up the issues brilliantly: http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/902/902992p1.html.

It's not a bout dumbing down. I absolutely hate that oblique implication! It's about clarity of narrative. Wether you think clarity is a virtue or not is an opinion.

@micah: I thought Robin was calling because a bunch of Black Glove men were trying to get them, but they werent the same as the ones I thought (that was Bruce Wayne) getting the guy at that cabin....Gah now I dont understand what is going on! It sucks! lol

@champion: just looked, same guys at the cabin are with tim later.. they go back to dr. hurt later in the issue and talk about how they were having trouble catching robin.

I think a lot of people share the opinion that if you don't get G-Mo's stuff, it's because you arn't smart enough. Maybe this is true to some degree, but I know a lot of smart dudes read comic books & can't be bothered reading something multiple times & searching stuff online to make sense of things. In my opinion if you need to go to all that trouble to get the most out of a story it isn't a good thing, but there is a lot of G-Mo fans who would tie me up & set me on fire for having such a blasphemous thought.

@WadeWilson: I think its matters what your looking for in your comics.  I like the fact that I can do all of that with Grants stories because it makes me feel like I'm getting my moneys worth.  I'm not just paying three bucks for a comic that I'll read and then forget about.  I want to reread his comics and go online and figure out all the hidden meanings and little background things.  I spend more time enjoying one of his comics than I do with most trades.

Well I finally got the issue and posted my review and in short: I'm so confused!

Dont get me wrong, I loved this issue; it was very intense and had a great amount of memorible moments in them. But that last page is bothering me, cause it's getting me all confused....It also doesnt help that the Joker is technically the voice of reason here...which makes it cool, but also worse at the same time. lol

It's fine that G-Mo doesn't bother to bring much clarity to his narrative, but it would be nice if he did it anyways. Not sure I appreciate him mocking me either.

I suspect this story will read more easily in trade since it can be hard to keep all of the threads straight with a month (or more) between "chapters."  Still, I've been engaged with this story and feel like I'm following the major beats well enough to be fully entertained.  I suspect that I'm too casual of a Batman reader to appreciate all of the subtext, but at the same time, I don't feel like I'm unable to follow the story.  I'm very curious to see how the next issue plays out, and to hopefully get the real back story on Jezebel Jet.

Come on, you know with a name like Jezebel Jet she must be evil....Not only that, it's most likely not her real name! I mean seriously, who names a their daughter Jezebel?

Perhaps Mr. and Mrs. Black Glove would name their daughter Jezebel to encourage her to carry on the Black Glove family traditon of evil? And I assume the surname "Jet" was offered as an alternative to the word "black," but maybe that's just me.  What I want to know is why she hates Bruce Wayne (and/or Batman) so much.  That's the backstory I want, not the history of her alias...

who knows what's going on? I surely don't!

@rwpos - I don't think being a casual Batman reader would affect anyone's understanding of this story. Even the most hardcore Batman readers could be confused by this, at least partly, & I've finally figured out, that's the point. That's what Morrison wants. There is a line in this issue from the Joker --

"the real joke is your stubborn, bone deep conviction that somehow, somewhere, all of this makes sense! that's what cracks me up every time!"

That's Morrison talking to the readers who read things traditionally (IMO), & by that I mean -- readers who expect narratives to make sense & be understandable.

I still dont understand what the heck is going on in this comic!!!

I find this line just as telling - "You think it all breaks down into symbolism and structures and hints and clues. No, Batman, that's just Wikipedia.." 

It's not that I don't get this, at least what's supposed to be gotten. I'm a huge Stanley Kubrick fan and this seems to follow the "Eyes Wide Shut" path. There are a ton of things that noone really gets though, and it's those: why Joker appears to be Dr. Hurt (?)'s pawn, why Jezebel is behind this, what's the dead mans hand connection, or red and black??

@FACE: You'll find out the answers to these questions and more when Batman #681 comes out this....hopefully before the end of the year...(Art by Tony Daniel, Cover by Alex Ross)

Hey I'm confused as hell on this story as well, but it hasnt made me stop and think that I'm not enjoying this. I can understand the complaints and they are valid, but overall I think Morrison has done two fantastic things with this title: A) It's making us talk about it and try and discuss answers to it and B) He's made us read or even buy previous issues to get this story. So he made us Discuss and maybe Buy previous issues to his own comics....That is how you market well in this industry my son.

The only problem with that is, half the people talking about it are complaining that it doesn't make sense or they're asking questions (that can't be answered) about the story. But, I hope you're right Champ & all the answers are given in the finale ... I'm not holding my breath, though.

"this seems to follow the "Eyes Wide Shut" path."

In a way yes, but that film had a very solid and clear center that kept me interested. I could see the main character developing and advancing through the events and it was structured in such a way that you felt included in the story. Kubrick is a master of pulling you into a story despite it being opaque. He did the same thing in 2001.

Morrison is no Kubrick in my book.

A villain or villains with a grudge against Batman (or against Bruce Wayne) have hatched an intricate plot to tear him down and destroy him.  Wayne's closest friends (surrogate family) have been used as pawns to degrade Wayne's mental state, and a series of psyhcological attacks have driven him, essentially, crazy.  Because of his intrinsic paranoia, Batman had actually prepared a contingency plan for just such a scenario, thus an alternate Batman (in a crazy costume) is born.  And now he's striking back against his enemies and we have to wait and see if he triumphs (which I think he may not - this is, after all, the time when evil wins in the DC Universe). Much of the backstory is delivered in an obscure fashion (to build a sense of mystery), and perhaps someone with deep knowledge of Batman lore could find clear hints or clues; maybe not.  Either way, I know that there are many aspects of the story that still don't make sense to me (perhaps it will all be explained at the end, perhaps not) but I certainly understand what's going on and I'm enjoying the story.  And on a side note, I don't feel as if Morrison is putting dialogue into his characters' mouths that's intended to insult me as a comicbook reader.  Just out of curiosity, are there people buying and reading each issue (still) that actually feel angry or insulted by Morrison's story, or who really feel that the writing is sub-standard or un-readable?  And if so, why choose to continue buying it?  I have a hard time dropping some series that I feel have jumped the shark, so this is a sincere question, not a veiled criticism.